36 replies to this topic

[Moe]

It's complaining time!

I was watching Pokemon on Ten this morning, I watch the episodes as they air in the US so I originally turned on just to check if they'd bothered to start getting the episodes in Widescreen in the new Black and White series, when they hadn't been doing so for the later episodes of Diamond and Pearl, which are in HD in the US and Japan. I recorded the episode and was getting really annoyed at just how many ads, etc it had. So I went and cut the ads and Toasted TV crap out from around the episode and found something rather shocking.

The run time of the episode they played this morning, without ads was 13:58. The episode as it aired in the US on Cartoon Network is by comparison 20:50, that's nearly 7 minutes cut out of the show. And despite this, it still airs in a 30 minute timeslot - complete with the glorified ad for the Gold Coast themeparks that is Toasted TV wrapped around it, and 4 ad breaks.

I was shocked by it so compared it to a weekday episode, which are from a few seasons ago, they fare slightly better, 18:27 compared to 20:39. A further comparison is that another episode I have from a Ten airing in around 2005 (when Ten had the watermark on the left if that helps you date it) was 20:41, though I don't have a copy of that episode's Cartoon Network airing to compare - it means Ten have only recently started to slash the length of these episodes.

While I think Ten deserve some credit for still having children's programming in the mornings, the fact they are butchering the programs they are airing to fit in extensive amounts of ads and advertorials, means that they are really not doing anyone a service. I couldn't imagine trying to follow the storyline of a TV show with 1/3 cut out of its runtime, yet this amazingly passes as the most significant contribution to children's programming on FTA.

Go at the time were running Kids WB, but that consisted of really old Looney Tunes cartoons. 7Two were ironically playing Digimon.

So really, for those worried that Breakfast is killing off Children's TV - Ten hasn't bothered to wait that long, it is already a mess.

[Squee!]

I think its one of those areas thats not legally regulated terribly well, thus they can get away with it.
Thats a massive amount of content cut!

[Reuder7]

I was watching Pokemon on Ten this morning

I would never have guessed you as a keen Pokemon fan. I didn't even know it still existed.
Are the new episodes in widescreen on Ten? Have you compared a Ten cut up episode to the full version, what do they actually cut out, and why would you bother?

[bambbbam]

♫ I wanna be the very best, like no-one ever was!♫
Do-Do-Dooo
♫ To catch them is my real test, to train them is my cause! ♫

Sorry. It's not like Ten don't get enough ad revenue from toy companies at that time of morning, they could at least show it unabridged.

[Moe]

I would never have guessed you as a keen Pokemon fan. I didn't even know it still existed.

Everyone has to have something they don't grow out of.

Are the new episodes in widescreen on Ten?

Yes it was.

Have you compared a Ten cut up episode to the full version, what do they actually cut out, and why would you bother?

Well they cut the cold open, which was 2:30 in length, then cut about 3 minutes out of a scene in the middle of the show - which resulted in a very easy to follow scene where before the break you see people diving for cover near a cliff while rocks fall down, and then after the break, them swinging on vines in a jungle like area, followed by a final cut of half of a battle sequence after a commercial break. So it was massive chunks in different spots rather than minor cuts across the whole episode.

Edit: A video for anyone sufficiently interested (sped up) is here

For some reason they still kept the ending credits - which I'd have thought would be the first thing you'd cut for time off a TV show.

There's also some rather odd cosmetic edits - shown in the screenshots attached.

[Big Dan]

I'm surprised they're still going...

[Kirben]

Toasted TV (and the earlier Cheez TV) have been editing scenes out of cartoon series for years, in order to allow more time for commercials and host segments. Although it is usually only a few minutes removed from each episode, and not that large amount of time. Toasted TV still frequently show cartoon series (Hot Wheels Battle Force 5, Penguins Of Madagascar, Pokémon: Diamond and Pearl: Sinnoh League Victors, Rollbots) cropped, when they were produced for widescreen too.

I stopped watching cartoon series on Toasted TV long ago, for these reasons. When I used to do comparisons for new cartoon series, I would always find several minutes were removed from episodes during the commercial breaks.

I think older cartoon series (i.e. Flintstones) are the worst in general for edits, due to their longer runtimes. With scenes frequently cutting to commercial break in the middle of dialog, and returning with a completely different and later scene.

Edited by Kirben, 23 October 2011 - 10:01 AM.

[Big Dan]

Once digital switchover is complete, I would not be surprised to see kid's programs moved to a digital channel. Toasted TV on Eleven is a real possibility in my eyes. ABC1's done it, Nine does it.

[The Sifon]

What about distribution? It could be edited by the distributors before reaching television networks (outside USA)

Edited by The Sifon, 24 October 2011 - 08:03 AM.

[Kirben]

Once digital switchover is complete, I would not be surprised to see kid's programs moved to a digital channel. Toasted TV on Eleven is a real possibility in my eyes. ABC1's done it, Nine does it.

Yes, hopefully Toasted TV will move to Eleven next year, rather than been axed, when their new Breakfast show starts.

What about distribution? It could be edited by the distributors before reaching television networks (outside USA)

No, these are definitely edits by Ten, for time reasons I stated earlier. As the edits always seem to remove scenes at the start, or during the commercial breaks.

Edited by Kirben, 24 October 2011 - 09:44 AM.

[The Sifon]

There's also some rather odd cosmetic edits - shown in the screenshots attached.

That's a distribution edit. Also at 1:06 in your video.

I think you're correct with the other edits. Poor form but kids arent stupid and like the rest of us are downloading these shows via other means.

[SydneyCityTV]

Shouldn't we merge this thread with this older one?

[Moe]

Shouldn't we merge this thread with this older one?

Quite possibly, but I wasn't sure why that one was locked, so decided to just leave it in the depths of the forum than do an almighty bump.

That's a distribution edit. Also at 1:06 in your video.

Yeah, but it seems an odd thing to be editing. I understood it when they were redoing things to be 4:3 safe when they were cropping things - though in the Ten version they even made it worse for 4:3 viewers. I presume it aired in 14:9 on analogue, which would have seen that title nearly completely cut off.

I think you're correct with the other edits. Poor form but kids arent stupid and like the rest of us are downloading these shows via other means.

Yeah, my issue was more that Ten still get away with passing this off as half an hour's worth of the children's content quota (not sure what that is on Weekends if it exists at all), despite delivering a show that would be impossible to make sense of if you tried to follow the storyline of the Ten airings thanks to massive cuts to fit more ads and advertorial sections of Toasted TV.

[SydneyCityTV]

Quite possibly, but I wasn't sure why that one was locked, so decided to just leave it in the depths of the forum than do an almighty bump.

Probably had to do with the TV shows forum being merged into seperate network threads, but considering that kids shows aren't exactly the most popular topic on the forums, I think that a single thread for all the kids shows is OK in my books.

Anyway on to the topic at hand, it wouldn't surprise me if Seven/Nine/Ten ask ACMA if they can air kids shows on the multichannels and make it count towards the P/C classification quota. I can't believe that we still have the 3.30-4.30pm kids hour on Seven and Nine (and more likely than not, Ten, when Breakfast starts next year) in 2011! Then again, they must make a load of money from the toy companies during the 4.00-4.30pm half hour so they probably think it's worth it.

[Moe]

I've said in the past I think the commercial networks should be able to pay the ABC in lieu of meeting direct children's programming requirements, especially for the 'P' programming requirement. Considering we have two kids channels on FTA and there's a huge debate over ads directed at kids, if the commercial networks just put some money into local productions on the ABC they could free up the slots for higher rating programming but deliver a better outcome for younger viewers.

Of course some of the childrens programming doesn't exactly fit with a public broadcaster, but most of that is imported and not locally made, and could easily slot in on multichannels.

[SydneyCityTV]

I've said in the past I think the commercial networks should be able to pay the ABC in lieu of meeting direct children's programming requirements, especially for the 'P' programming requirement.

Agreed. IMO, "P" is the most stupid TV classification in history.

Considering we have two kids channels on FTA and there's a huge debate over ads directed at kids, if the commercial networks just put some money into local productions on the ABC they could free up the slots for higher rating programming but deliver a better outcome for younger viewers.

Agreed. Why do Seven/Nine/Ten still have to air C/P programs when we have two decent taxpayer/Government funded kids channels on FTA digital TV?

Of course some of the childrens programming doesn't exactly fit with a public broadcaster, but most of that is imported and not locally made, and could easily slot in on multichannels.

True, shows like It's Academic or Pyramid would be out of place on ABC3, but could easily fit on 7TWO or GO! Just about everything else (most if not all P shows*, Backyard Science/Kid Detectives, etc.) could fit on ABC3 or ABC 4 Kids.

*Except All for Kids, I hate that show with a passion and couldn't care less if it never appeared on television again.

[Kirben]

I've said in the past I think the commercial networks should be able to pay the ABC in lieu of meeting direct children's programming requirements, especially for the 'P' programming requirement. Considering we have two kids channels on FTA and there's a huge debate over ads directed at kids, if the commercial networks just put some money into local productions on the ABC they could free up the slots for higher rating programming but deliver a better outcome for younger viewers.

I would rather see the Australian content requirements reduced or scrapped, since most Australian series for children aren't very good (with cartoon series been the worst). Especially as the commercial TV networks frequently just use game shows or infotainment, in order to fill their requirements. I don't think the money would be better spent by the ABC either, since they are producing more game shows, infotainment shows and reality TV rubbish, rather than seriously attempting different TV series.

Of course some of the childrens programming doesn't exactly fit with a public broadcaster, but most of that is imported and not locally made, and could easily slot in on multichannels.

There aren't many new TV series for children from overseas, still shown on the main channels though. Mainly the series shown by Saturday Disney on Seven on Saturdays, Kids WB on Nine on Saturdays and Toasted TV on Ten over the week.

Nine really should move the Warner Brothers cartoon series on Kids WB on Saturdays to Nine Go!. Especially since KidsWB on Saturdays is often interrupted by other events (usually sports), with the Australian TV series always taking priority, if not all series can be shown.

Will be interesting to see what happens to Toasted TV next year, whether it will be axed or moved or Eleven.

True, shows like It's Academic or Pyramid would be out of place on ABC3, but could easily fit on 7TWO or GO!

Why wouldn't they be suitable? there are already several game shows (HotSpell, Letterbox, What Do You Know?) shown by the ABC3.

Edited by Kirben, 25 November 2011 - 01:07 PM.

[SydneyCityTV]

Why wouldn't they be suitable? there are already several game shows (HotSpell, Letterbox, What Do You Know?) shown by the ABC3.

Because contestants on Seven/Nine's kids game shows play for prizes, something I doubt happens on the ABC3 game shows. (Contestants on those shows would probably only play for points/fun/etc.)

Edited by SydneyCityTV, 25 November 2011 - 01:29 PM.

[Moe]

It's a minor change really to remove the prize component. It isn't like Seven's still doing A*Mazing and the whole thing revolves around playing Donkey Kong.

[SydneyCityTV]

It's a minor change really to remove the prize component.

True...

It isn't like Seven's still doing A*Mazing and the whole thing revolves around playing Donkey Kong.

If the show was still around, I doubt they would get away with that today for obvious reasons.