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OFFLINE   tayser #21

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 01:52 PM

Yeah well... that's a fairly average programme.
And of course it's hosted from 2 of the world's major news centres; Sydney and Vancouver  :)

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There goes the point ----->

my polint is that there's already the collaboration between ABC and CBC, it wouldn't take much to extend it by getting either 'Canada Now' (half hour - same guy who does Hemispheres) and/or 'The National' (hourly, can be cut down to half hourly though) on ABC2 daily.

OFFLINE   NewsWorld #22

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 01:57 PM

There goes the point ----->

my polint is that there's already the collaboration between ABC and CBC, it wouldn't take much to extend it by getting either 'Canada Now' (half hour - same guy who does Hemispheres) and/or  'The National' (hourly, can be cut down to half hourly though) on ABC2 daily.

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You didn't read my earlier post... delivery is not possible without great expense.
CBC News is not broadcast on a satellite that can be "seen" in Australia.
The only way to get the programmes on air in Australia is booking expensive itinerant satellite feeds.
And again, the question is why bother? CBC puts together a good product for Canada. It's not relevant for Australia so why should we broadcast it?
And why Canada ahead of New Zealand, South Africa, Fiji or anywhere else for that matter?
The ABC should be providing news for Australians by Australians.

OFFLINE   antzzz #23

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 03:58 PM

You would think that by now, with technology and video compression and such, that the networks would be able to transfer a 1/2 hour program over the internet and broadcast it digitally in at least SD.
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OFFLINE   tayser #24

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 04:45 PM

You didn't read my earlier post...  delivery is not possible without great expense.
CBC News is not broadcast on a satellite that can be "seen" in Australia.
The only way to get the programmes on air in Australia is booking expensive itinerant satellite feeds.
And again, the question is why bother? CBC puts together a good product for Canada. It's not relevant for Australia so why should we broadcast it?
And why Canada ahead of New Zealand, South Africa, Fiji or anywhere else for that matter?
The ABC should be providing news for Australians by Australians.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


How is American Idol relevant to Australia? It begs the same question, no?

I'd place Canadian content above Kiwi, Fijian or South African content on the ABC as, well, there's always been some (Degrassi series for one), and it gives the ABC a big chance to shrug off the anti-North American stigma that it has, as well frankly I place far more trust in a public broadcaster whose charter is almost the same as the ABC's as opposed to more Yank garbage.

Why not not bother?

edit:

antzzz: bingo.

Edited by tayser, 14 March 2005 - 04:48 PM.


OFFLINE   Mr Q #25

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 04:53 PM

Maybe a '24' hour news service on digital tv would be a good idea. It could be a joint venture between ABC and other commercial intrests. It could also broadcast programs on ABC2 and ABC Asia-Pacific.
Plus "ABC News 24" (that's what its called for now) could be broadcast on ABC1 overnight so no ancient movies on anymore.

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We already have an Australian 24 hour news channel being provided by the private sector - there is absolutely no need for the government to set up and run a competiting service. There is no market failure that warrants such intervention in the free market.

How is American Idol relevant to Australia?  It begs the same question, no?

No it doesn't - American Idol is an entertainment show. There may be some American references which may not make sense to Australian viewers on the margins, but in general, entertainment is entertainment where ever you are.

News is a different kettle of fish - there would be little relevance for a Canadian domestic news service to be shown on the Australian national broadcaster. Maybe SBS - not the ABC.
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OFFLINE   NewsWorld #26

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 05:04 PM

No it doesn't - American Idol is an entertainment show. There may be some American references which may not make sense to Australian viewers on the margins, but in general, entertainment is entertainment where ever you are.

News is a different kettle of fish - there would be little relevance for a Canadian domestic news service to be shown on the Australian national broadcaster. Maybe SBS - not the ABC.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you Q - exactly what I was going to say :)

OFFLINE   tayser #27

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 05:30 PM

so if it's not News-tainment then it should be thrown straight at SBS?

we're arguing over half an hour, maybe one hour of air time per day - given that the ABC heavily relies on Commonwealth content for its international stuff, I see no reason why the ABC couldn't seperate its channels after 2008 (when analogue ceases to exist) thusly:

ABC1 (Aunty): Australian productions, news sports and weather etc etc etc
ABC2 (Cousin): International content (doco, drama, news, current affairs, sport etc), primarily focusing / borrowing or in collaboration at some later stage from: BBC, CBC and TVNZ.

SBS was set up to cater for the growing multi-lingual and multi-ethnic population (read: non-English and non-Anglo/Celtic background - and it does a very good job of seperating its news and normal channel right now) and even now the ABC's own description of ABC2 reads: ABC2 features a broad range of new and time-shifted ABC programming -- children's, regional, arts, public policy, social commentary, international news, music and information..

I think it's sensible to keep the main English language content in the same area (ABC) and leaving everything else with SBS.

OFFLINE   Mr Q #28

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 05:39 PM

so if it's not News-tainment then it should be thrown straight at SBS?

No it's because it's a foreign news service. There's a reason why it's SBS that shows all the foreign news programmes - because that's part of its charter. It's not the ABC's!

we're arguing over half an hour, maybe one hour of air time per day - given that the ABC heavily relies on Commonwealth content for its international stuff, I see no reason why the ABC couldn't seperate its channels after 2008 (when analogue ceases to exist) thusly:

ABC1 (Aunty): Australian productions, news sports and weather etc etc etc
ABC2 (Cousin): International content (doco, drama, news, current affairs, sport etc), primarily focusing / borrowing or in collaboration at some later stage from: BBC, CBC and TVNZ.

So, basically, ABC2 would be another name for SBS.

SBS was set up to cater for the growing multi-lingual and multi-ethnic population (read: non-English and non-Anglo/Celtic background - and it does a very good job of seperating its news and normal channel right now) and even now the ABC's own description of ABC2 reads: ABC2 features a broad range of new and time-shifted ABC programming -- children's, regional, arts, public policy, social commentary, international news, music and information.

"International news" is distinct from foreign news. "International news" refers to news content of a global nature - not the domestic news content of a foreign country.

Keep in mind that SBS also airs "The Journal" from DW-TV as well as "Newshour with Jim Lehrer" from America's PBS - both english language newscasts.
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OFFLINE   K #29

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 05:45 PM

The following is thanks to Timmy on the DBA forum. It includes what ABC and SBS are allowed to show on multi-channels.

I finally tracked down the specific part - Clause 5A of Schedule 4 of the Broadcasting Services Act (1992) which sets out what ABC and SBS are actually allowed to show. So for anyone who really wondered, here goes:

(a) a program (including a news bulletin or a current affairs program) that deals wholly or principally with regional matters;

(b ) an educational program;

(c ) a science program;

(d) a religious program;

(e) a health program;

(f) an arts-related program;

(g) a culture-related program;

(h) a financial, market or business information bulletin;

(i) a program that consists of:

(i) the proceedings of, or the proceedings of a committee of, a Parliament; or
(ii) the proceedings of a court or tribunal in Australia; or
(iii) the proceedings of an official inquiry or Royal Commission in Australia; or
(iv) a hearing conducted by a body established for a public purpose by a law of the Commonwealth or of a State or Territory;


(j) a public policy program;

(k) a foreign-language news bulletin;

(l) a program about community-based multicultural or indigenous activities;

(m) a children's program;

(n) a history program;

(o) a program that:

(i) is produced by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation or the Special Broadcasting Service Corporation; and
(ii) deals with international news (including analysis of items of international news);


(p) a national program about rural affairs;

(q) an information-only program;

(r ) a stand-alone international social documentary;

(s) a stand-alone social documentary that is produced by the Special Broadcasting Service Corporation;

(t) a subtitled foreign-language program;

(u) an occasional stand-alone drama program;

(v) incidental matter.

It kind of reminds me of the movie Pleasantville where the mayor of Pleasantville, fed up with people turning into colour, and kissing, and painting murals, and listening to rock'n'roll, sets out new rules so that people can only listen to Perry Como and paint in black and white, etc.

These restrictions should be dumped immediately IMO. Foxtel and the commercial networks have nothing to fear, especially considering ABC and SBS's budgets, after all.


Note that only "(u) an occasional stand-alone drama program; " is allowed to be shown.

OFFLINE   NewsWorld #30

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 05:51 PM

so if it's not News-tainment then it should be thrown straight at SBS?

we're arguing over half an hour, maybe one hour of air time per day - given that the ABC heavily relies on Commonwealth content for its international stuff, I see no reason why the ABC couldn't seperate its channels after 2008 (when analogue ceases to exist) thusly:

ABC1 (Aunty): Australian productions, news sports and weather etc etc etc
ABC2 (Cousin): International content (doco, drama, news, current affairs, sport etc), primarily focusing / borrowing or in collaboration at some later stage from: BBC, CBC and TVNZ.

SBS was set up to cater for the growing multi-lingual and multi-ethnic population (read: non-English and non-Anglo/Celtic background - and it does a very good job of seperating its news and normal channel right now) and even now the ABC's own description of ABC2 reads: ABC2 features a broad range of new and time-shifted ABC programming -- children's, regional, arts, public policy, social commentary, international news, music and information.

I think it's sensible to keep the main English language content in the same area (ABC) and leaving everything else with SBS.

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I think you are missing the point a little.
News that is created specifically for another market, by definition will not be interesting elsewhere.
CBC creates its news for a domestic Canadian audience... there is plenty of fine CBC news product that the ABC could and does draw on.
But a replay of a bulletin designed and produced for a Canadian audience is just a waste of airtime.
There would be items that are just meaningless to an Australian audience.
Had you suggested the replay of a bulletin from CBC NewsWorld International you might be able to make a case.. that is news designed and produced for an international audience as is the news from BBC World and CNN International.

I think you would find a similar situation exists within Australia... no one is going to replay a Perth news bulletin in Sydney or vice-versa... there's just no relevance.

OFFLINE   Mr Q #31

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 05:53 PM

Interestingly - I saw an ad on Foxtel the other day for ABC2... Given the apparently shoe-string budget that ABC2 operates on, I was surprised that the ABC would be advertising on a commercial operator... Of course it's reasonable that with the launch of the new channel, avaliable of course on Foxtel Digital, that they would want to promote it on that platform - but I wonder if the ABC is paying for it...
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OFFLINE   tayser #32

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 09:15 PM

I think you are missing the point a little.
News that is created specifically for another market, by definition will not be interesting elsewhere.
CBC creates its news for a domestic Canadian audience... there is plenty of fine CBC news product that the ABC could and does draw on.
But a replay of a bulletin designed and produced for a Canadian audience is just a waste of airtime.
There would be items that are just meaningless to an Australian audience.
Had you suggested the replay of a bulletin from CBC NewsWorld International you might be able to make a case.. that is news designed and produced for an international audience as is the news from BBC World and CNN International.

I think you would find a similar situation exists within Australia... no one is going to replay a Perth news bulletin in Sydney or vice-versa... there's just no relevance.

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You're giving your opinion only, not facts:

'News that is created specifically for another market, by definition will not be interesting elsewhere' - there is no definition in saying what I would find interesting or not - try at least to seperate subjectivity from definition / fact.

And on your last point: aren't you forgetting what ABC2 are doing right now? replaying each state's own stateline.

"International news" is distinct from foreign news. "International news" refers to news content of a global nature - not the domestic news content of a foreign country.


Granted: however going by what kenneth has reposted re: stuff that SBS and ABC can broadcast, after a quick scan, Foreign news being broadcasted on ABC could come under:

(b ) - there appears to be no restriction on foreign / international news being picked up and broadcasted for educational purposes (denying it on the ABC for educational grounds wouldn't hold up)
(g) - foreign / international current affairs, documentaries are a fantastic medium for cultural exchange: I don't have to list a few examples in that department.
(q) - foreign / international news / current affairs, docos and other non-Australian and non-ABC produced material can easily be classed as information only programmes.

and round and round we go.

OFFLINE   tayser #33

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 09:16 PM

Interestingly - I saw an ad on Foxtel the other day for ABC2... Given the apparently shoe-string budget that ABC2 operates on, I was surprised that the ABC would be advertising on a commercial operator... Of course it's reasonable that with the launch of the new channel, avaliable of course on Foxtel Digital, that they would want to promote it on that platform - but I wonder if the ABC is paying for it...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


LOL! But, surely advertising on Foxtel wouldn't cost that much? doesn't foxtel / paytv in general only ever pull max bout a 7-8% rating??

OFFLINE   K #34

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 09:44 PM

On the foxtel advertising matter, it may have come in the deal for Foxtel to rebroadcast ABC digital.

OFFLINE   Mr Q #35

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 09:49 PM

You're giving your opinion only, not facts:

Well - even if it is opinion, I think NewsWorld's opinion is worth a fair bit given his knowledge and experience in the industry.

'News that is created specifically for another market, by definition will not be interesting elsewhere' - there is no definition in saying what I would find interesting or not - try at least to seperate subjectivity from definition / fact.

No - I think it is based in fact. The target audience is meant to be the local market in which the programme is aired. For our national broadcaster - the ABC - there wouldn't be a reasonable level of interest in a CBC domestic bulletin to be aired. As I say - for SBS, it might be a different matter, given its service remit, but it certainly doesn't fit in with the ABC's purpose.

And on your last point: aren't you forgetting what ABC2 are doing right now? replaying each state's own stateline.


Stateline though is a 30 minute programme shown once a week - a bit different to the ABC's 7pm news shown on a daily basis.

Granted: however going by what kenneth has reposted re: stuff that SBS and ABC can broadcast, after a quick scan, Foreign news being broadcasted on ABC could come under:

(b ) - there appears to be no restriction on foreign / international news being picked up and broadcasted for educational purposes (denying it on the ABC for educational grounds wouldn't hold up)
(g) - foreign / international current affairs, documentaries are a fantastic medium for cultural exchange: I don't have to list a few examples in that department.
(q) - foreign / international news / current affairs, docos and other non-Australian and non-ABC produced material can easily be classed as information only programmes.

and round and round we go.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What kenneth has posted is not at all inconsistent with what I've said - that particular legislation refers to both the ABC and SBS. But both those organisations have their own charters, and clearly foreign news programming fits in with the SBS's charter. There would be absolutely no reason for the ABC to compete with SBS with respect to foreign news programming. It seems very clear cut to me who has responsibility for broadcasting foreign news programming - and it ain't the ABC.
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OFFLINE   NewsWorld #36

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Posted 15 March 2005 - 12:25 AM

I'm really going to have to start paying Mr Q for acting as my PR agent :)

Basically, Q has responded as I would.
While I don't agree that I said was "opinion" I would have to say that even if it was I'm paid to express those sort of opinions and without sounding like a know-it-all (did someone say too late) I am willing to say I'm fairly confident I'm right on this matter.

As for the Stateline replay on weekend afternoons, I have to say that is the ultimate time-filler and no one would regard that as compelling television.

OFFLINE   dryfry #37

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Posted 15 March 2005 - 07:00 AM

One thing i would like to see on ABC 2 is more experimental content things like short films and perhaps making reality, program ideas that would normally be shown the door or end up on snowy channel 31 .
Another would be having BBC News from London being shown on ABC 2 as I have seen it on the ABC's satellite interchange feeds...
Failing that old episodes of The Goodies at 6pm followed by Doctor Who at 6:30 just like the good old days...

OFFLINE   Mr Q #38

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Posted 15 March 2005 - 07:16 PM

One thing i would like to see on ABC 2 is more experimental content things like short films and perhaps making reality, program ideas that would normally be shown the door or end up on snowy channel 31 .

Absolutely - stuff like this shouldn't just be on ABC2, it should be on the ABC as well. Experimental content like that is precisely the sort of thing that helps the ABC correct market failure, which is ultimately the whole purpose of the broadcaster.

Another would be having BBC News from London being shown on ABC 2 as I have seen it on the ABC's satellite interchange feeds...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

*tears hair out*
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OFFLINE   Mr Q #39

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Posted 15 March 2005 - 07:17 PM

I'm really going to have to start paying Mr Q for acting as my PR agent  :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey - I already do the website. I'm happy for my role to be expanded! :lol:
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OFFLINE   Jaybonzi #40

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 01:29 PM

A very positive response to launch of ABC2

A surge of interest in digital tv has been generated by the launch of the new ABC free to view digital tv channel ABC2.

Electrical and electronic retailers have welcomed ABC2 with enthusiasm, organising in-store promotions and accessing information via both the DBA website and abc.net.au/abc2.

ABC2 reports that new audience members are expressing their pleasure in finding ABC TV favourites available at times more suited to their viewing habits. Families with young children have also been delighted at the return of ABC Kids programs throughout weekdays.

Australians in regional areas are discovering Australia Wide, a news program highlighting stories from beyond city limits. The increased regional focus of ABC2 - which will soon expand with state-based sports coverage - has given rural and regional ABC audiences a new voice.

With an electronic program guide being tested for transmission, and the possibilities of interactivity, it is likely ABC2 will continue to generate interest in free to view digital television in Australia.

From the next edition of "The Guide' in the Sydney Morning Herald and 'The Green Guide' in The Age will be listing the ABC2 program schedule will be listed. A printable version of the weekly schedule will be available at www.abc.net.au/abc2 by mid-April.

ABC2 is available on Channel 21 via digital set top boxes. For further program information visit abc.net.au/tv/guide

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